EPISODE 4

Tasting Goudas With Charlie Turnbull

BROADCAST ON 28th April 2020 - 8.00PM
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30 minutes of cheese chat with Charlie Turnbull and the Academy of Cheese. This week we are talking Gouda, with some classic Dutch Reypenaer, Wyngaard Goats, and our own British Cornish Gouda.

Giel Spierings from the Cornish Gouda Co, legend on his own Cornish coastline, will be joining us to tell us about how making cheese saved his farm.

Live Broadcast On: 28th April 2020

Episode 4 Video Transcript

It’s Tuesday Oh American it’s kind of like let’s get some big trucks and bouncing over some big cars and it’s okay.

Welcome to Tuesday Night is Cheese Night it is a fantastic summer’s evening down here in the southwest of England I am looking at and the beautiful skies the pink is just rising over the horizon the sea I can see there it is time to talk go to Academy cheese bring you this tonight as always there are the most wonderful organization trying to improve the world’s knowledge in cheese because we need to eat more actually at this time of the Big C we need to be supporting all those little cheese makers and cheesemongers out there who are seeing their livelihoods disappear as they ask their cows to cross their leg and keep the milk inside vinegar right we’ve got a special guest tonight an absolute wonderful mane makes me feel really old just saying his hobbies are surfing and mountain biking and he’s just built his own house and he makes cheese he started when he was 17 and if you know you know he is that’s fantastic we bring him in just a few minutes.

But first we to reach out to Tracy are you there Tracy good evening everybody welcome welcome thank you for joining Charlie and I and our special guest and Charlie’s got beer I haven’t and I’ve got gray miserable skies in Shropshire but hey ho talk Gators let’s talk about it status and I saw just a few seconds ago the big question of the evening right where is it this is it how do you pronounce tuck out it easy Guerra is it how is it who do is it good we’re gonna find that out and now we were going to bring we’re going to get healing a little later but actually he’s just got a beautiful backdrop up so we’re going to say we could go into a virtual green room and say you are you there and there hello impulse train w-where work well how do we give him a big column okay okay all right how you how you knew yep I’m fine fine fine keeping busy you’re in Lu which is about an hour north call with North Cornwall Coast sort of facing the garden yeah southeast code southeast coast now I’ve heard some fascinating story about you how your family has come into cheese-making but before we do that and I want to really get there I want to introduce the cheese delights off third and the most important starving now this is one of you always see if you can recognize it what is that chat deal who is he vintage vintage yeah that’s your vintage so what is vintage how old is vintage that one is about four years yeah so that’s one of our and it’s very similar to a parmesan tuile cheese so a lot of chefs are cooking without one using it or grate on dishes if you wanna use less cheese then you know that one’s a great substitute because it’s so strong that you don’t need a crumble on your dish to add flavor into your cooking but also it makes a great addition to any cheese board and yeah it’s one that I come off serious sales my people are already logging on to your brand new online store a girl has a brand new or nice idea what we’re looking at this one and they are calcium crystals so excess amount of calcium in the milk after I take about ten months for them to start to form and they yeah give a nice lovely crunch into the cheese a real hard crunch you will see it in our mature cheese and iris mature as well but the vintage really has like a crazy amount of them in there so people often call kind of thing it’s different it’s different to a cheddar very much different to each other because Cheddar’s are they soaked all the way through seas whereas doubt as a brined things like a different way of adding salt to the cheeses but the excess of our calcium really is from what those cows are eating outside there that’s through the property hey am I about to taste they’re very good work you are very much though they do all the hard stuff we did either it so let’s let’s talk about you you just talk about your family I understand that your parents came over in sort of 1998 yeah that’s right yeah my parents moved over yeah from South Poland released farming area to cool moonlight Gita basically when they started the you know the quota system the Dutch were producing well over hundred every milk so close was very very expensive to buy in the Netherlands whereas Indian was only producing 60% of its own milk so obviously they want to get people to produce more milk of course is very cheap and my parents just could not afford to start dairy farming in Holland and whereas it was a lot more affordable and and yeah my dad had a real passion for and yeah for milking cows and it was just sort of his dream to do that and so yeah cool really made that possible for him sort of 20 years of well not quite but you know a long time of doing the business and no price has never been good enough obviously they’ve had heavy mortgages lot of yeah basic 2012 parents at the farm for sale and yet she wasn’t viable anymore and sort of really heartbreaking whole family wanted to carry on milking and carry on farming but it just wasn’t viable and so I just said to them look if I start buying milk with you and I’m making cheese sort of thing would that be something that you know we’d wanted you’d want to do and it took very little convincing because my parents are throwing through Farmers dairy farmers so I’m grabbing anything yeah so when you came over in 98 you one must have five or six years old or something well we get back all the time so I remember it through you know going back in photos and family and stuff but yeah we go backwards on and this when he saw obsess on a genius moment let’s make cheese what you made I’m Dutch yeah exactly yeah literally exactly that I mean that that’s all it really really took and it was just a case of like a last desperate attempt to try and carry on farming and that’s really all we tried to do was the last desperate attempt to keep the farm going and so yeah number of farmers you know cheese making was a diversification in doing it they discovered a lot of passion that wonderful blend of art and science and browns he found the cattle that makes it a really lovely place to you’re supposed to be yeah definitely yes and why am my brother’s an agronomist so he grows all the food for the animals so we grow there’s someone who looks after the soil plant these crops all that sort of stuff so me my brother worked really closely together to obviously grow foods that we want the cheese to taste like so it’s all about what you put into the cows is what you get back out we grow home taro silage on-site so everything in there eating everything into Shoom and we produce and my brothers in charge of all of that so main part of the diet is grass sort of thing and that’s where a lot of our flavor comes from but he’s really involved with the farm and then my mom and dad obviously throwing pedigree herd their whole sound breaching cows every animal is born and reared on site we look after every single one of them and so yeah yeah literally yeah yeah you even grow your own logs to go in your own ship to make the heat it makes the cheese that’s there yeah we have fire my foiler sustainable forestry solar panels on the roof so the whole before we get the cheese and I’m sorry this you got to use house so deal turn your phone around giel bought builds this himself last my help oh I mean come on that’s living the dream can we convert a couple of you guys out there obviously not doing to give it over and live its being exceptionally dedicated and talented and high and risk happy 17-year old to give it up to me yeah basically okay not that you’ve got to do something right so so the question that you’ve got to answer number one is it gara how Laguna Rahula well we are homes a powder but we always tell everyone in England that doubters all right but powder is how we all say in Holland and I suppose the correct terms but if you’re in England there was a doubter then we say that fine it’s the customer’s always right moment really isn’t it it’s like how like how do you do is what you saying exactly be back there you are cool all right I think it’s time we tasted some cheese we’ve got three here that you sent us through this one you can get rid of us Charlie if you are I’d never want to and if I make you small I make deal small I obviously thank you that’s fine we want to see you and the cheese okay well let’s get on the cheese here we go you do not me this is kind of like that oh look this is that thing with the going with the Apple look do you remember that well what’s that that bit of art I think answers on a postcard and what is littering who who who do this so here we have your youngest charity plan small smooth seeing a little bit of a dimple and then we have your mature no that’s right so we’re looking at 12 months of this chap and you’re saying for years for this one this is a honor for you and just to compare we’ve seen different shapes and sizes the concave of the rind tell us what makes gala gala gear why is gala different from chair that’s a UH main thing is it’s a water Cochise and that’s really sort of your main difference and there’s small differences in terms of the size you cut the curd I obviously it’s brined that’s way result that sort of thing the finalist brought on whom is now now they’re wonderful they’re educated but we need to ability to wash coat what is wash curd so basically when when you’re making cheese you want to take moisture attitudes obviously there’s a lot of moisture in cheese depending on what kind of trees you’re making depends on how much moisture you’re taking out and so for example cheddar is scalded and and and Abreva we hanging cloth whereas a Gowda we take and sort of in between a brief you like and a cheddar amount of moisture out to the QI try and keep the cheese creamy but also be able to mature on for a longer time and therefore we use warm water to wash the curd and essentially the curd does what your fingers do when you’re in a bath for too long they dry up they shrivel up and they take all the moisture out of your skin and that’s what warm water does warm water if you put the card in the warm water it literally dries out you’re using water to dry cheese out and that’s essentially what we’re doing making doubter it doesn’t doesn’t also and if you need to know more about what code changes the Academy cheese courses are there to educate you what code also washes some of the bacteria sorry the lactose out and reduces the bacteria put up back to your production of acidity allowing the sugars to come through am i right in saying that right yeah the whole point of cheese making essentially is to get rid of lactose and that does be yeah our way of doing that sort of thing so yeah yeah very much so so the classic counters they start off and if you don’t mind me saying they have some of those boring cheese in the world when they’re young and they just climb into beauty and start producing amazing flavors that’s what seven eight nine a month more and just explode with flavor once you get over 12 months definitely we we like to start with the youngest we really sell is is the the semi mature which is five or six months old we do have a mild chief to offer which you know if you’ve been to holler ending about a continental breakfast cheese and give out a really young cheese then we do have it available but most of our customers are wanting the older stuff and so we really start mainly with promoting our semi mature and then we yeah quite up to the mature one which we want best hot cheese a great British cheese Awards with sort of great moisture levels in there but and really rich really Moorish and then obviously the visit burnt toast caramel we yeah we’ve got a couple of questions well there’s someone one of the ladies that’s viewing has got sliced Gowda slice any of your go-to skill I would doubt it maybe the younger know we are cheese is very sort of it slightly different than maybe what you would buy in a supermarket or what people have tried before it had been to hollowing things you know we try and take our cheese’s to that next stage that or the maturity is a lot different every single cheese is made by hand so the sizes are always different so it’s really really hard to sort of try and do the mass production side of things you know and you could pretty see what Charlie showed up earlier that they’re all sort of different thicknesses and different heights in the cheese and the vintage is especially small because it’s lost a lot of moisture so obviously we’ve lost loads of kilos through moisture but as a whole they they are all different sizes you know some are 12 kilo so in ten kilos they all vary in in size so to try and get the whole sliced cheese thing is impossible for us really we’ve got another question on the vintage why is the vintage so salty salty yeah it’s just because it’s lost so much moisture so obviously a gout is really well known for moisture if charlie is able to hold up the mature or the furniture as well next to the VIN you better see a difference in terms of thickness and the majority of that is the fact that you’ve lost all of that moisture in there so the cheese is just shrunk right down lost of its moisture but there’s a same amount of salt in there so you’ve got a lot of percentage there’s so much more salt left in the cheese then whereas the younger cheese’s have got a lot more moisture in there so as a percentage there’s a lot less salt okay cracking you know Mike’s males do you know Mike yeah better than but then he can’t be caught live on farm south of Salisbury we use cheese when we were in Shastras a rotten before a way he has two cheeses that he says that would make the same cheese once a young one was not the other one is called old Winchester I don’t know if anybody out there is trying this Magritte oh hang on Jill died thank you just Negrete the son of man that’s cool with you Riaan thank you so mike has been making this bit longer than you I think but you can see he’s got much paler skin a drier almost sheeps Kerdi and a sheep’s milk ton of texture and look they’re completed very good cheese those done very well over the years we’ll be tasting that a few minutes twice again for those cows getting closer you were looking a bit worried then yeah Wow so you’ve got some limited edition ones there and what a fenugreek we have on all the time I like to think that we’ve getting sort of known for that one really really nothing all right that one there yeah that’s the fenugreek really nothing people who’ve got Nadja’s we’re a nut-free site and that’s a nut-free product but it’s very very nutty a lot of people confuse it with walnuts sort of thing delicious delicious cheese and then you’ve got the honey and clover there the honey clover we haven’t made for over sort of six years and but you know when we start out we made honey clover no one really knew our plain ones let alone I flavored one so didn’t really sell very well and then in the summer last year we decided to make another batch of it and it got to be one of my favorites on the list it’s so unusual it doesn’t always compliment other cheeses it’s a bit of a standalone one but it really is delicious it’s just one of those really grassy earthy flavor to cheeses and it’s just the the clover has it I don’t like a grittiness that you taste it but you can feel the texture between your teeth good question Gail how long does it take to make a batch of Gaia and what hi what do you if they waxed are they plastic coated to mature them yeah so yes a wax wax immature so they believed up and they’ll thin the wax and that’s how they get matured on because we rely on the trees have a be expose to oxygen we have to keep cleaning and turning the cheezer’s who have to flip them over so once a fortnight we’re sort of clean cheese on top turn them over clean the other side clean the shelves and turn this out as well and we have 35 tons of cheese and storage those very very labor-intensive selves very mature the cheese is on and yeah plastic coating or waxing plastic coating that’s the way we always seal them in in terms of making we start pasteurizing the cheese about four four o’clock in the morning courthouse for the morning we start pasteurizing the cheese and then by the timing all day time ago in the brine bar it’s about 10:30 and evening come on oh yeah so every hour of the day but obviously it’s not we’re not physically like labor-intensive making cheese between 4:30 in the morning and 10:30 at night sort of thing it’s very much case of the patient’s man’s game you know you’ve got a really patient with it and you’ve got a sore you know you’ve got to let the cheese develop and and they ripen and things like that so there’s a lot of waiting in between it and it’s sort of 8:00 in the morning until about four o’clock is where the majority of the labor side of things are in the red sort of want that four o’clock we’re waiting six hours before he’s bitten in the brian bar and and in the morning a lot of pasteurizing that’s just you know hours of waiting so you know it’s not it’s not do bad well Tracy maybe there’s something we should do we should come back with our digital camera when lockdown is over and bring cheese – cheese nineteen keels from will see some of that cheese maybe what you think no penny a space before you throw and by all means come down fantastic right I’m gonna introduce someone else now this is the Padstow Brewing Company now guilt said that he had some this is fridge and so we’re going to taste it together but he’s drunk it which is very good very good and so we’re tasting with that now I read my own notes on Gowda and it reminded myself said that bitter doesn’t go very well with Kara now looking at the Dutch history beers wheat beers that’s what was traditionally drunk the card is that right yeah wheat beers yeah yeah exactly that literally and yeah you said it but I love I love the bitters I love the corniche I own that and I haven’t been like out at all times so so what are you drinking tonight I’m actually drinking a Cornish naka which is a golden ale corn smokers that’s a traditional original kind of thing yeah it’s a Skinner’s brewery one and it’s a good one I’ve got bass dogs and I’ve got Cornish knockers and I just think they’re great yeah I’m really enjoying it I love that it brings out the sweetness and hops that kind of that bit of beer that’s multi and really and really bonds with with the with the with the gara so how much recommend with it with gathers what’s revoir would you recommend a gander and so I love and the Ryoka region I think it’s brilliant that’s my sort of favorite go-to wine although I would say in terms of pairing it with cheese and the rocker goes really well with our vintage but I’m not sure goes that well with our milder cheese’s and rough is really heavy punch of wine sort of thing so putting on the best cheese go with the Gemara cheese’s but you know a nice Shiraz or at or a Pinot Noir sort of thing that that’s a really nice sort of red wine to go with the Gowda I didn’t drink a lot of white wine white wines is not my cup of tea but you know there are some really fantastic white wines out there and and a lot of the white wines tend to go better with these sort of mature and they’re selling mature and and even the flavored cheeses and you know with your fish dishes as well sort of thing so you know personally Rucker’s heavy heavy full bodied wines that’s my cup of tea bust up you know and yes she neither were they eat these these peaches and I’ve just tried you on your four-year-old this is astonishing it’s absolutely amazing these big cheese’s they are one of the few cheese’s we stand up spirits they can do Jin they can do whiskey and Ronstadt yeah literally any like yeah the spirits as well sort of thing it’s just it’s one of those ones which are only a little chrome off and your mouth just explodes and you know the four year old one kind of shrinks your mouth up because it really is just so full of flavor so I’m yeah I see Charlie bit a bit the smallest amount here this is a bottle of half of 30 years 18 not much left Hart brothers of the day 1973 this although it was bottled those 21 years my gosh was about 50 years old so I’m not quite sure how we’re gonna go through this so here we go this is this is live experimentation on cheese TV on the bowl it’s gone it’s game over amazing it’s there are so few cheeses that really go with spirits a lot of talk about the gin revolution Athena it amazing that is so perfect like a huge salty bacon thing happening it’s amazing but almost a haggis oh that might be the whiskey okay well you know my wife’s turned up again you know how my whistle oh you’re Jane oh we’re we should track the gene okay we’re gonna do a bit of experimentation with the gin what do we got question okay cool let’s try common question right let’s just let’s just go deep into into Holland now because there’s a there’s an absolutely amazing F in our house for those of you that don’t know what methanol is come on an Academy a cheese cheese course and learn about the history of cheese and what a phone is do just sayin it here first so after notice the person who takes the cheese and being made and matures it on now in the UK all cheese makers pretty much ever know their own cheese’s which is what killed us but then they cost me across the channel a lot of European houses you have specialists who affinor cheese and they have their own we’re bringing character out their own cheese stores and a lot of the biome is unique and they are very good very very good at what they do this guy is a guy called beautiful fin guard and I apologized to him right now although I do believe that who started in back in 1936 and he was basically being paid in cheese for vegetables I’m paying sorry paying vegetable growers in cheese and he started after knowing the truth and he’s now um got one of the most amazing cheese upon earth is missus and he has one which I used to sell which I actually love this is available through the find cheese company north from them my opinion I don’t know if you can read that right near the SOP so this is that and you’re seeing the same lil I believe this is tyrosine crystals the calcium crystals that you was talking about things the same ones alright my wife has fun testimony actually bought me she seems a cheese to very fair so you’re the same thing I mean this is this is similar but different to yours Gill yeah look looks awesome I wanna try it well so yeah so I’m gonna bring this in and taste it so you’re getting the same thing with your deals all the cheese’s were it very much breaks it does not Bend this is a cheese now that the structure has so much moisture ripped out of it and it’s so contrasting because of dense that it’s rock like and with this one you’re getting chocolate actually it’s really good but I’m so amazed by girls four-year-old me but he things like chocolate hazelnut rum caramel and they say would I taste this I often get things like sherry no alcohol no that’s like a scenario so in some of those really deep Spanish flavors almost even though that’s a long way from Holland the complexity in an old powder is just to die for it’s really achieved at flowers in old age just like me and I’m sure you will there’s or they don’t he’s just young now so right questions saying if you haven’t got alcohol or you don’t drink alcohol it’s lovely with Cornish tea your cheese guilt and then another question yes Goffman is that that’s a corner of tea estate isn’t it that you don’t know is ask has got a cheese got a high vitamin k2 content is that why it’s healthy for you I’m Gil oh he’s frozen I thought that was him being I’m sort of stony-faced intense but I think actually her he’s got he’s got Wi-Fi issues okay well let’s hope he comes back oh he’s disappeared altogether hopefully I’ll be back and I have no idea absolutely no idea bhisma k content we will sort of will sort of try and write that out right regarding people from foreign fields i see Sally deeds here they sallied nice to see you I saw Shirley he done it she’ll he’s earth was it had a Shirley nice to see you too oh there she is hmm she’s obviously just eating something good see Shirley every go anything else for us um yeah people are eatin thin God and they did stuff you got 70 where’s the world of in God is it disappeared of here there we go vin guard that doesn’t look like i was milk it tracy sharp as a knife yes no one of our team if the hope nods night had this last week because it’s a goat cheese and you can tell from its absolute white marble look that even though there’s cheese is probably a 12-month mature or something of that order it’s still white as a white thing let’s bring up its sister cheese the these are come from the same at the nurse look at their friends in color that you’re also going to get with this white goat’s cheese you are not going to get the buildup of those crystals you only get the crunch which we like so much it has a completely eaten character with the goat’s milk you’re not going to get those bird notes those caramel notes those sherry notes but if i ever want to think that someone might who thinks they don’t like goats cheese might like to try it this is what I give them this is the most elegant refined goat’s cheese that I know now that’s not it’s just so delicious it’s like white chocolate it’s amazing um it’s it’s it’s elegant refined us on everything that revolves other ways of doing good she’s fantastically but this is just one horse it’s just a book oh just I highly recommend it so if you can find some bin guard and you got a little private time don’t share it that’s what I’m saying right Gail this back Charlie you just need to the to the from backstage it was broken after milk I highly recommend if you can find some bingo can you go a little private prime don’t share it that’s what I’m saying right you know lease back to the to the from okay we just turned up deals Mike because he hasn’t worked out yet that he’s nicked his computer off his girlfriend just closed himself you tube okay right technology we’re going to try it with Jim have you tapped a thumbs up if you turned off your YouTube have you turned off your YouTube okay we’ll turn them back on again area oh well right Jim does Jim go with Karen this is the question everyone’s lips obviously it’s not often you do neat Jim I remember when I was like 20 nerd about 15 I’m drinking gin at school and which one began I think we decided the Dutch have their own game it’s called universe you know no universe or something like that no no too powerful all right okay so where were we so we’ve got lots and this is becoming a bit of a mess and we’ve got lots of galleries here gallery is the world’s most popular cheese and it’s relatively easy to make and it’s added sweeteners now if you do with that washed curd technique that you was talking about means that its popularity is extremely strong and people can like it even when it’s very young even though it’s very basic cheese and he finds really good cuttings melts really nicely at those young ages a bit like this one young Alpine degree yes and that kind of thing so when you bring those in it has a lot of uses that’s what so popular and but to make a cheap cheese those young cheese is you do not mature them maturing is expensive so going beyond that twelve mark mark which is where gather just nails it was just such northern cheese and it’s surprisingly rare for the world’s most popular cheese so in that sense there is just great cheese out there to be found so if you go to your supermarket and look for gather just go the distance find the old ones and you can find a really good cheese monger out there and there are a lot of cheese mongers online you can check out the Academy website where you’re showing as many cheese makers cheese makers and mongers that are selling online as we can at the moment which is really good so that’s working really well Gil is on an Anneka rice moment and so please do support your local cheese mix which brings us to the great British cheese weekender is that right Tracy yes well British cheese weekender hmm with a hashtag in front hashtag sport small cheese makers so this is happening 8th 9th and 10th of May so not long week and a half yeah we gon live today with the lineup and over the three days there’s more than 30 master classes which is awesome so we have got so much going on yeah ranges from cook Long’s to you you Charlie Turnbull are doing a cheese lovers question time he’s nuts Chris nine straight out the radio for gardener’s question time we got what do they call him last week the the Mick Jagger Jamie Montgomery I think he’s gonna love that he likes a good bet Slattery and root just came from a fine cheese company who supplies half the chooses his mic knobs the girls he’s head of news director so that should be good yep and we’ve got we’ve got cheese and wine we’ve got cheese inside a cheese and beer cheese and whiskey but with all of the people leading those talks that she’s experts chefs doing cooking we’ve got Sarah Peterson queen of homemade cheese she’s making halloumi live she’s got going on so it’s really exciting but you do need to buy your cheese beforehand so go on the website see which ones you fancy joining and and come along and buy the cheese that’s relevant and come along with very excited cuz I look we’re all gonna still be in lockdown all right all right so let’s if we get your back heel are you coming back to us are you keep talking now no you can’t turn your mic back on okay where who okay always amateur hour here on cheese nice cheese night but it is always the most professional cheese makers we can get hold of so I’m going to bid you good night I hope you’ve had a really good time we are cheese nice cheese night next week on the academy cheese it chews noises like we have got blue cheeses we’ve got Stilton which is one of our great cheese’s one of the great British cheeses and that’s take us into big great for this cheese weekender so thank you for joining us go eat more cheese go drink more gin check out where the gin really does go together drink the beer and experiment have some fun spend some time with the ones enjoy motorists you English (auto-generated)  

 

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Charlie Turnbull

Academy Founding Patron, Director, Food Entrepreneur and Big Cheese

With over 20 years of industry experience in cheese retail, training and education Charlie is an acknowledged expert in cheese. As an esteemed judge at major cheese awards across the globe, Charlie also comperes the prestigious World Cheese Awards, bringing his expertise and flair to the stage! Charlie is a Founding Patron, Director and Training Partner at the Academy of Cheese.